Okay, okay, I'm skipping Lush on Thursday again this week, but mostly because I loved the discussion from last week on "bad" boys and figured that I ought to follow up with something on the (mostly nonexistent) "bad" girls in YA lit. Heather at the Flyleaf Review has a great discussion post on "bad" girls, so instead of writing another similar to it, I decided that I would combine the topic with one of my other favorite topics, The Vampire Diaries (i.e. arguing why TVD > TSC; why Dalena > Stelena).How do I combine a discussion on "bad" girls in YA lit with one on The Vampire Diaries? Well, by discussing why I love vampire Elena from season 4. (Side note: obviously there are spoilers from season 4. Sorry about the title - couldn't think of another non-spoiler one that was as effective.)
One of my pet peeves about season 4 in The Vampire Diaries was the emphasis on curing Elena of vampirism. Even in the beginning--before she'd turned off her emotions, before she'd killed a bunch of people, they still wanted to cure her. I might understand why Stefan had wanted that when Elena couldn't keep blood down, but I didn't understand why their insistence on the cure continued after it was shown that she *could* drink blood. And I didn't understand why that bothered me until both Damon and Stefan had jumped the wagon and decided that they wanted to give Elena the cure. Until Elena became Vampire Elena, Elena-Without-Emotions.
Vampire Elena isn't strictly a "bad" girl. She's also got the qualities of a kick-ass sort of heroine who has her own powers and an ability to take care of herself regardless of the cost. And yet the others treat her as if that's not true, as if she's become something that must be changed. Because she was pure, innocent Elena before and only that version was acceptable? Because both guys were looking to her for their salvation when no girl could provide that? Is that the societal constraint of "bad" girls? That ultimately others want to fix them, mold them back into non rule breaking forms?
Here's to hoping that Vampire Elena has at least another season.
Were you a fan of Vampire Elena? What did you make of the cure hooplah from season 4? If not Vampire Elena, who else makes your list of great "bad" girls in YA lit? What do you consider a "bad" girl, and if the "badness" similar to that which defines "bad" boys?
I like her now more, even though I hate this character. I like Katherine wayyyy more--she's more bad-a, fun, kick-a, sarcastic. I'm more intrigued about how she copes with the new situation than I ever was with Elena as a fang-girl. I still think she's furstrating and a party pooper of sorts, but I don't dislike her as much as I used to. I'm just tired of this show. I'm going to watch The Originals and maybe MAYBE watch TVD. The only characters I still enjoy are Jeremy and Caroline. The rest of my favorites moved to New Orleans and oh.. Alaric is dead. So yeah.. Not much to look forward to.. -.-
ReplyDeleteWoo Hoo for the bad girl:) First, thanks for the linkage to my post, Christina! I'm a little behind on returning comments but I did read (and loved!) yours and I am going to respond to it--probably tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteOk, so I don't watch Vampire Diaries *ducks* When the series first started I wasn't interested because I read the book, actually I think I read three of them, or at least two, and frankly just wasn't that impressed. BUT, here's the thing. I am thinking that perhaps the Vampire Diaries show is kind of like the Buffy the Vampire tv show. The movie version SUCKED. But the tv show? TOTALLY ROCKED. So maybe the it's the same thing here? I know people looovve it obsessively (not unlike how I was with the Buffster.) Plus you have Ian Somerhalder, who is, of course, BEAUTIFUL and sexy as hell.
So, I'm not exactly in the know about Elena and her bad girl/ vampey self (I remember some from the book, but it's been awhile) but I don't think I really have to be up to date, because the case you present for the bad girl, especially your final paragraph which is AWESOME in every way, is exactly how I feel about my fave bad girl characters: Cocky, arrogant, straddling the line between anti-hero and villain, passionate, complex, with hints at redemption. All the things that I love in bad girls too:)
Yay for bad girls! We need more of them!! :) Awesome post:)
WOW!!!!
ReplyDeleteThen why are you saying this about a fan loving Elena Article!!!!!
Stupid TROLL!!!!
I don't know who you are, but if you can't find anything respectful to say, don't comment on my blog. Unlike you, Siiri expressed her opinion in a nice, thoughtful manner. If you trash her again, I will blacklist you.
ReplyDeleteAww. Katherine is definitely a badass/kickass, sarcastic anti-hero/villain type too, but I've always found her way harder to root for than Vampire Elena because she's so self-serving. Haha, fang Elena is still a party pooper? Really? :P I thought she'd improved when she got fangs. Personally I don't know much longer I'll watch TVD (I'm not really sure who's my favorite character anymore; people keep dying, and if I miss an episode, I feel so lost) and I'm also willing to give the Originals a shot. I always did like Elijah.
ReplyDeleteOMG, hahahahaha. Well.. you know what they say about name calling. Don't call people names you don't want to be called yourself:) In all seriousness though, you basically asked a question so I'll kindly answer it:
ReplyDeleteI said this because it's my honest opinion and I consider Christina a friend, even though we have never met and I just recently got to know her, hence I know I can tell her my honest opinion without her being offended by it. We all have different tastes and since we comment on each other's blogs daily, why should I tell her 'oh, sorry, I can't really comment, because I may hurt your feelings by saying what comes next, even though I know you would not.' I read her post, found it a great opinion and told her mine. You shouldn't be offended by it any way:) Whatever floats your boat! I think Nina Dobrev is great, I just don't like Elena as a character. It's not like I went fangirl-hating on a stranger's website and I didn't speak down on Christina lol. Oh and trolls are cool btw. Ever been to Norway? I went there and the Troll-land was gorgeous and the trolls there were awesome ;) Thanks, girl! Stupid? I don't know about that.. not really. Possibly a cum laude BA graduate next spring;)
Oh, that's for sure. She brought the sassy to a new level in season 2, but I have a love-hate relationship with her. I love her sassy personality, but I don't really agree with her selfish actions. She's always up for own gain. On the other hand, that's what has kept her alive for 5 centuries. LOL, she is in some ways. but has definitely improved!! Elijah--swoon. He is the one guy I still swoon for and laugh hysterically when he says something very chivalrous in the most random situations. I like how noble he is. I hope he gets it on with someone in New Orelans because he deserves some lovin :) I don't see him with Katherine to be honest..
ReplyDelete<333333333.
ReplyDeleteIn my post on why TVD > TSC, some random people called me jealous and implied that I didn't give the other show a chance (like my saying that I wasn't going to watch the show anymore would really make a huge difference lol)... but no one has ever insulted one of my friends. I'm sorry that happened to you. The only reason I've left her comment there (and not deleted) is that it'll be a warning to any others who might write similar things.
Also soon to be cum laude? Woot, woot! Congrats :).
Oh, I don't feel offended by any means. This made my day in the sense that I'm glad my opinion matters so much. It definitely shows what kind of a person you are if you go bashing on someone like that.
ReplyDeleteI have to lift my GPA to 4.2 It's 4.17 now and I have to defend my final work to the grade A--if I manage that, I'll get a cum laude, but it's not a goal of mine. Gaining knowledge and having a great college experience is :)
<3 O' wise-one, I bow to you. What a wonderful attitude to have. Also, I will get to your other comment and return the favor for your blog tomorrow. So exhausted now. Have a wonderful day!
ReplyDelete*hugs*
Elena? I'm not a fan or follower of the series, but she looks like the human girl from the beginning. Nina Dobrev, right?
ReplyDeleteBut huh, this is a certainly interesting post. I would certainly be looking out for more bad girls. :)
I didn't post anything today and won't until Monday. I think. My hands are full with preparations for this weekend ;) I have 15 people coming to our place tomorrow. Btw, I went to my local bookstore and I didn't buy anything *cries* I wanted to get Moning's Darkfever, but there were the rest of the books in that series, but not #1 -.- Plu,s everything good I already own and I didn't want to purchase just for the sake of buying if I'm probably not going to read them anyway. I'll order something from TBD most likely ;) Hehe.
ReplyDeleteI'm not such a fan of Elena. I find her such a whiner and she has no spine, so the change to vampire-Elena was much better! She was sometimes still a pain in the ass, but I welcomed the difference. I agree that she was more complex. I also really liked her and Damon together, because I'm getting tired of Stefan's "broody boy with a lot of feelings and sadness" Damon is more alive and yes, he did stupid things, but I like his character better.
ReplyDeleteOh no, I missed this when I was replying to your other email! Er... Check your email about Darkfever. o.O. And wootz. Hope you find something nice on TBD!
ReplyDeleteYou didn't post yesterday, but you posted Wednesday, I think, and I still haven't gotten around to it. I'm a tad behind on returning comments right now.
Lol, she's definitely a very complex character, that's for certain. Even if her motivations generally end up revolving around her, sometimes you just can't predict the domino effect or what's her next move. Elijah is the best. I love his honor code. I don't understand his thing with Katherine - it seems like a lost cause.
ReplyDeleteYES YES YES. Everything that you said. I wrote a post on how much I liked Damon with Elena because he made her better and because his attitude is way more refreshing than broody Stefan's. :)
ReplyDeleteYep, Nina Dobrev. I'm not a HUGE fan of the series - sometimes I don't quite understand why I'm still following it - but I do like discussing it. Haha, I'm always on the look-out for more "bad" girls, especially in YA lit when more protagonist need to have that sort of confidence.
ReplyDeleteOf course! I loved your discussion. Really and truly. I honestly haven't come across many "bad" girls (Melissa Marr has a few though, now that I think of it; in charge of their sexuality but not quite as arrogant as I'd normally associate with BGs). I also need to return some comments to your blog and others - am a bit behind with that so no worries :).
ReplyDeleteThe show is nothing like the books. The books aren't as good. I also read them when the show first came out, but the character complexity doesn't feature there - not like with the show. Lol. Ian Somerhalder, yes. You might watch a few episodes and see if they're still kind of meh. I don't love it obsessively - sometimes I do wonder why I am still following - but it's super fun to discuss.
The fact that she turns into a vampire is about one of the only things the show keeps consistent with the books lol. But I really do love what they've done with her character in terms of the bad girl, and I love that you'd given me a list of other characters similar to her in your post :).
I loved reading this post!!! I AM obsessed with TVD!!
ReplyDeleteBut when Elena first became a vampire, my feelings for her fluctuated.. lol.I was upset, mad, sad, happy, excited, I liked her sometimes, I didn't like her other times, I super loved her other, I wanted to give her the cure, I wanted her to stay a vampire forever, wanted her to be with Stefan, and then with Damon!! But I think now, and after reading this post, I love her and her bad-girl ways!!! I still love her more than Katherine. lol
Ok, I have to say that Elena had really been getting on my nerves because she constantly needed saving and she was so good, it sort of made me want to throw up. But then, when she turned into a vampire, she still needed help all of the time. I think Caroline makes a much better vampire. She became so much stronger than she was, but at the same time she stayed herself, if that makes any sense. So then Elena turns off her emotions because again, Elena can't deal because she's such a wimp, and only then is she a bad-ass. Why does everyone love Elena? All I know is that now that Catherine (sp?) is mortal and with what happened to Stefan, things should definitely get interesting. Fun post! ~Pam
ReplyDeleteHahah, yes, definitely A LOT MORE than Katherine. Katherine is definitely the more bad-ass version of Elena, but she's also so self-oriented that mehhhh. Also I agree with you on not always liking Vampire Elena at first, but I think that's the mark of a realistic character too :). I hope she retains her bad-girl ways :D.
ReplyDeleteHhaha, yes, her self-righteousness and damsel-in-distress situations did make me not like human Elena much. She still did need help when she became a vamp, but Caroline did too in the beginning :). And as you pointed out, Caroline is an awesome vampire. I do think Caroline has the same perky personality from when she was a human - so she is much more like herself than old Elena like Vamp Elena - but it could also be argued that Vamp Elena was always there, just hidden by other impulses. Like how you could argue for the switch from Stelena to Dalena. I'm thinking that Elena's strength will show more in the upcoming season - things will definitely get interesting. (I'd nearly forgotten about K. getting the cure!)
ReplyDeleteYes! I like vampire Elena more than human Elena. Maybe because VE seems to fancy Damon (<333) more than Stephan (I really, really don't like him) And I also like how confident and strong this new Elena is ;)
ReplyDeleteHahahha, Stefan gets on my nerves too. I did wonder as I was writing this post if my preference for Vampire Elena had anything to do with my preference for Dalena, but I shrugged it off - she really is strong and confident now :).
ReplyDeleteI LURVE vampire Elena! I always thought normal Elena was so melodramatic and a bit obnoxious. And whiney. But vamp Elena is FUN! I really hope she doesn't magically turn human again. I mean, I'd like to see her be a normal vamp, not a ripper, but any kind of vamp is better than human, at least where Elena is concerned. I always did like Katherine's character better. ;) But you know who I loved best of all? Alaric. I'll admit to tearing up when he ghosted back in that last ep. :)
ReplyDeleteYes. Normal Elena was very self-righteous. I don't want her to be a ripper either, and REALLY REALLY hope they don't end up doing the magical cure thing (it happens in the books though o.O). You like Katharine better?? I always found it hard to root for her since she's so self-absorbed o.o. Alaric was great! I wished they'd given him a plot line instead of deciding to kill him off. The actor is going to be in another CW show, though, I think?
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